Intro

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 0:00

Welcome to the Five Codes Podcast, where we discuss evidence-based methods to elevate yourself to the next level through optimizing the way you look, move, perform, feel, and connect. Well, we have a very unique treat for you on the Five Codes Podcast today. One of my best friends, my business partner, my training partner in jujitsu in training, the owner of the pain cave. If you follow along, Tyler Alvarado is going to join us today. Tyler is my business partner in our practices, but our history goes so much deeper than that, and we're going to get into how that all started. He has a very unique background as a CPA. He has achieved his CPA, which in accounting is sort of like getting your medical degree, your MD. It's very challenging to get, but it's very interesting that he never practiced in public accounting. He actually has been a serial entrepreneur starting businesses from the startup stage. And when I first learned about him, he was involved with a tech startup in Cordelaine, Idaho that was very next level, very unique. And I didn't fully comprehend or understand the depth of how cool that startup was until I really got to know Tyler. And he was the CEO and leader of that entire organization. And that's actually, we became friends during that portion. We then blossomed a beautiful friendship that is very deep now. And that turned into our business relationship. We push each other in practice. We push each other in growth with our families, with our wives. We push each other spiritually. We push each other in jujitsu and we push each other in the gym. And so you're going to get a lot of insight into what the dynamics of our relationship look like. You're going to get some great business insight for those of you that are entrepreneurs. I know that everybody listening to this is a high achiever in some capacity. So I think you're going to find a lot of Tyler who is a very, very, very high achiever in a whole different realm than I am that will resonate with you very, very much. So I hope you pull a lot out of this and I hope you feel the genuine nature of our connection that comes out of this. And I really hope you enjoy. Tyler Alvarado,

How We Met

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 2:02

thank you for being on the Five Codes podcast.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

It's my honor, Dr. Chestnut. Welcome.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 2:07

Thank you. We can go with Cameron on here. Didn't know which version is. It's funny the mix of you calling me Dr. Chestnut and Cameron. So Tyler, we have a bunch of questions to go through from the audience, but the first one that like a lot of people asked is how we met, basically, um, how we became business partners, how this whole thing evolved. And you know, my experience of you started just with kind of knowing about you before we ever met. Um, specifically with the very sort of next level, eventually I would learn, like futuristic. Like it blew my mind when I saw what you were doing and your tech startup. Like literally, I'm like, I can't believe this exists in Quarterline, Idaho, when I walked in there and saw what was happening. So I knew about you from that, and I was like, oh, that sounds kind of cool, but I didn't honestly understand the scope of it, right? And then we randomly met one morning at a coffee shop, right? How many years ago was that?

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Gosh, uh I think my third child was probably a newborn, and he's seven now.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 3:07

Yeah, so about seven years ago. Um, and we were just like at a local coffee shop, Court Lane Coffee Company. Saturday morning, they had like movies on for the kids, and I was there with my whole family. You were there with just your kiddos because you had a brand newborn.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Mine probably had hot chocolate, yours probably didn't. Probably.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 3:26

Um, and I didn't know who you were, but I just went over and introduced, and then I'm like, oh, you're that guy that I've heard about. And so that was kind of our first little like, I would say becoming acquaintances, basically, right? Kind of knowing who each other were. I then flash forward and um our sons, our old both of our oldest children, ended up on the same soccer team. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Right.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 3:46

And I'm like, oh, that's Tyler. And we of course knew each other because we live on the same body of water, so we actually knew each other by boats pretty well. Totally. Like that's Tyler's boat.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Totally, totally.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 3:55

And um, so now we're like all these like edging kind of closer to each other. We bought a piece of property literally right across the body of water from your house. Yep. Um, but we hadn't didn't live there yet. But we kind of knew, oh, you know, we're gonna be sort of pseudo-neighbors at some point. And um anyway, but then our kids end up on the same soccer team. Right. And there's a little, there's a build-up here because this is my solidifying moment. It exists in this in this part of the story, which was I have always been the weird dad who worked out at practice or before the games, like parents are sitting, watching, quite literally sitting and watching. And I've got I keep a kettlebell in my truck, right? So I'm like working out. Right. Well, I'm like, I'm not gonna sit here for an hour in the beautiful grassy, grass, you know, sunny field and do nothing. And so I would often work out. And I remember one day we were at an elementary school. I always kind of hide, you know, out of the way so I wasn't like right in the middle of everybody. But I saw you working on your computer. We were both like the dads at soccer practice. Yep. And I was like, I knew that you trained a little bit, but I was like, I'm gonna go ask Tyler if he'll work out with me. And I like can still visualize the story of me asking you and you being like shutting the computer and boom, off we went. Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Right.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 5:06

And then I had no idea your capacity at the time. So in hindsight, I look back, which just for so that everybody knows, Tyler is uh a beast, basically. That's the only way I can describe it. But I'm like kind of walking you through these workouts, and in your head, I know you're just like, I know this, you know. But you just like didn't say anything and we did it. We did a kettlebell workout on the grass, basically.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Yep.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 5:25

And I was like, how cool is it that this person will nobody, nobody to this date still, basically, despite you and me inviting people. It's almost like mocking at this point, right? That we like invite people to train with us, like doesn't happen. I still do this, right? Um, soccer season's right around the corner. I know I'm gonna get a lot of outdoor workouts. So that was like the moment for me that I was like, this is different, this is cool, this is unique. That you know, you can you kind of like the awkwardness, the breaking the ice, the doing it in a way that's very atypical. And also, like, I was like, geez, this guy works works hard. Yeah, right. Yeah. And so that was for me the first moment of like, oh, we're gonna be friends, you know? Yep. And then um, from there we started like kind of like getting to know each other better, got the families together a little bit, as the boys kind of like, you know, got to be teammates and became friends too. And then it kind of progressed from there. I don't know. What's your recollection of that story?

SPEAKER_02 6:17

I mean, I think you did a really good job, but I think one of the

From Acquaintances to Business Partners

SPEAKER_02 6:20

first things that kind of drew me to you after that meeting in the coffee shop was our kids were considering joining this club soccer team. And this was like the parent night before the kids even went to tryouts and and decided what they were going to uh if they're gonna play or not. And you were the dad that was there engaged for your son, as was I. And there was only maybe half a dozen parents there. And you and I stayed and talked to the club director and asked questions. And, you know, what really stuck out to me was your, you know, your investment in your child and making sure that this is the right season of life and this is the right club, and you know, that their core values aligned with you and your family's core values. Cause at the end of the day, you're entrusting your child with you know for a lot of hours there. So um, you know, that was gained a lot of respect seeing you there and could tell that we uh, you know, had some similar core values there. And then, you know, that that workout, I would say to be fair, you did introduce the Mike Tyson kick throughs, which I needed some coaching on those Mike Tyson kick-throughs. But uh still one of my favorites. Totally, totally. So that was that was really fun. And um, yeah, I think that this relationship went from acquaintances to friends to business partners to just doing life together, really through kid soccer. Yeah. And so it's been kind of a really special, special several years that we've got to do life together.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 7:40

Yeah, somebody asked us like how uh that it seemed pretty fast to them. Um, like, oh, you guys kind of went from like acquaintances to friends to business partners pretty quickly. Um, and in actuality, I think it was actually a bit slower than that.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Yep.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 7:52

Um, if you really look at the burn of it, um you know, we've built something very beautiful together on money levels, but um from the business standpoint, like you know, we were acquaintances, then we became friends, then we became family friends, you know, parent friends, and then we started like training together, like working out at the pain cave, which was a common question. Yep. Um, this is Tyler's home gym named the Pain Cave, which has become a theme of our, I would just say bonding, like our ability to tolerate discomfort. Absolutely. We got the pain cave at your house, we got the pain pond and the pain pit at my house, the sand and the water, got pain lane at Schweitzer, where we work out. That's like our you know, this our street there. Um anyway, but the pain cave was another area of just like once we started training there a little bit, it was like, wow, this is you know, it's very new to me. It was very new to cross workouts. You were very seasoned. I was coming into your you know orb at that point, basically. Um, and like you teaching me back and pushing me, and like I learned a lot of new skills, so I was like brand new, like starting fresh, learned a lot of new skills, but I just carried kind of a work ethic and fitness into it, and I was like, hey, this this is so fun to like have somebody mentoring me basically in this thing, right? Uh ultimately down the road, spoiler

Getting Tyler Into Jiu Jitsu

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 9:03

alert, that carried into me getting you into jujitsu, right? Which is now hilarious because you again are another beast there. But you know, it wasn't I try to get a lot of people into jujitsu. Like basically, spoiler alert, anybody that comes and rotates with me as a student, I'm probably gonna invite you to jujitsu. I love it. Um say yes, or a or a visiting doctor. Um, I'm usually gonna invite them, and you know, uh some of the students will come and it's cute, it's cute in a like a teaching way, and I I appreciate when they do it, and if they don't, no big deal. But like I also understand like this is crazy, scary, weird, like this is uncomfortable. Like I don't expect you to like embrace this, but I always appreciate it when people were willing to go outside of their comfort zone. For you was a bit of the opposite, like you was immediately all in, which is how you do things full send, right? Full send, 100%. Uh-huh. And this was no different than that. But um, and that's just very linear going back into the the pain cave days of, you know, I think that's where a lot of like, you know, like in a weird way, trust gets built in there because you see somebody's integrity, right? You see somebody's like work ethic, you see their ability to handle uncomfortable and intolerable sometimes situations, you see when, not if, but when they quit. Because we all we all find a fo like our workout this week was like find failure, right? Right. Like when are you finding failures? Not if. Um, and you just get to see how people do those things in different ways. And and uh you and I have very different, like, I guess, strengths in the gym to some degree. Yeah, um, but there's definitely a point where they meet and it's just like go, you know, like what it's gonna take a lot to get somebody to quit. And so that was when I was really like, hmm.

How Trust Was Really Built

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 10:40

Um, because I had asked you, you know, as I mentioned in our in your introduction that everybody heard, you have a strong financial background and as a CPA, and I already had a pretty thriving business, but I was just like, hey, I'm thinking about maybe needing like a CFO or something along those lines. Can I just pick your brain? Right. Um, that's how the whole business thing started. It was just like a friend asking a friend for advice, basically, knowing that you had expertise. Never because you were a CEO of like something that I was like, oh, this is incredible. I I don't even understand it, you know. Um, and then I think it was like a little bit of getting into like, oh, there there could be something here, basically, right? And you said something to me early on that um you know we've talked about a little bit since, but just to bring it up here again, is you're like, you know, I can provide a great, you know, benefit here. Just like let me show you, let me prove my worth basically. Let me just show you what I can do. Don't even like no faith in it, no this, no that. Like kind of like we would tell everybody, bet on yourself. Absolutely, no quite no doubt in betting on yourself. And I was like, wow, that is powerful. It was very powerful for me at the time, especially coming from the world of medicine where we have um very little, actually, we have no business training, and a lot of times make very poor business people. Honestly, sometimes for the same reasons that make people really good doctors, they're very poor business people. So no fault to them. Right. Um and there's lots of systems for people that exist, whether it's you know, working for the government or for a hospital system or for a um a medical group or a private equity group. Like there's all kinds of things. It's rare to have what we have, which is like sort of more a more entrepreneurial, absolutely, privately owned medical situation. Absolutely. But a lot of that credit goes to you because I was doing that before, but I was doing it at the level very high functioning level of a physician, which I have learned is nowhere near the level of a very high functioning business person. Right. Right. And that's what you saw. Right. That I didn't even, you don't know what you don't know. Right. I didn't understand it. And you were like, oh, there's a bunch of potential here, um,

Bet On Yourself

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 12:40

which was a great move. And you know, you immediately like that that would be an understatement, immediately sort of like showed that value to it. Um, so when people asked, like, how was trust built so quickly? How did it was it was not like I just handed, just like, yeah, I totally trust you right away. I was like, you we earn trust the old-fashioned way, yep, via relationship, via seeing the inside of somebody. Right. And then you were sort of like, Don't I don't need you to bet on me, like I'll bet on myself. Let's do this. And so I was like, I didn't, you didn't need to like, there was no like leap of faith, really. It was just sort of like, yeah, we did it right away. So that was really cool. Um, and you know, that I that I think encompasses all of like what first impressions were because it was a lot of first impressions, really. Like, I couldn't even really think back. I guess the true first impression was meeting at the coffee shop, which was just like two dads on a Saturday morning with little kids being like, Oh, that guy's out with his kids by himself. Right. You don't see that very often, you know. Um, and so I think, yeah, a lot of positive first impressions along the way that led us to where we're at now.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we always uh say in the pain cave, um we always say your mind quits before your body does. Yeah, you say that a lot, really loud in my ear as I'm exactly pushing through the end of a sentence. It's true, right? Oh my gosh. It's one of the five codes, right? It's mindset of the next level. You have this mindset, um, you know, and that's something that drew me to you was just your out-of-the-box entrepreneurial progressive thinking. Like that's very rare uh in the healthcare space and traditional Western medicine. And when I started talking to you about like your vision and why you practice medicine, I mean, your mindset was clearly different. And then when we started talking about me coming in and proving my worth and, you know, becoming partners, I remember asking you, like, are you sure you want someone with no healthcare background? And you're like, Yeah, you can learn the healthcare space. Like, I want what you can't teach. And so that mindset is what makes you, my opinion, makes you just an incredible physician. Um, in

The Asset of No Medical Background

SPEAKER_02 14:40

has, you know, enabled you to build an incredible business with an incredible team that you have. So I'd be honest.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 14:45

I love that idea. Like, I feel I'm a very cross-pollinated surgeon in my training background, as you know, right? Um, having like dermatology and facial plastics and oculoplastics and general plastics and sort of like molding all this experience together. Um so I actually viewed your lack of medical background as sort of an asset that's like you're not going to approach it the same. And we've seen that actually in interacting with other practices and healthcare businesses, you we just approach it differently.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Right.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 15:09

Um, and it's honestly, I've learned, I didn't know this at the time, it's way more fun to approach it with the mindset of a startup. Right. Like that's where your background was. And so I actually don't know any different than that either. But it's like, oh, this is way more fun. Right. You know, approaching it from that because everything is sort of this like the beginner's mentality. We call it the white belt mentality in jujitsu, right? Like sometimes you got to bootstrap, sometimes you gotta outsource, sometimes you gotta go all in, sometimes you gotta scale back and pivot. Yep. We've done all the literally done all those things in a short amount of time. And um, you know, I I I I think that's really like a a fun like testament to like you know, getting into like a physician getting into business.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

It's very, very different to do that. I love it. Yeah.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 15:49

Early on in our like ventures in the pain cave and early conversations, I would say like the discovery phase of our like deeper part of our relationship. Yep. Um, you know, sort of like you know, as I mentioned in the intro, like you're not just my business partner, you're one of my best friends, right? And early sort of in that realm was um just a lot of like you said, digging into my mindset and things like that. But it's rare that I get somebody who digs that much and asks that many questions because it gets a little uncomfortable. Um, and it gets a little not uncomfortable for me as much as just like, well, that's it is different and it is deep. Yep. Um, and there's a lot to it, and it's very uh

What Makes a Rare Friendship

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 16:30

disciplined and very motivated. And I think a lot of people just sort of like like struggle with that part a little bit. Um but I will say that you're m one of the only people, um, my closest friends and my wife being the other ones who know that part of me, but still have the ability to like make me believe in myself more than I do sometimes. And that was one of the first things I like you did that faster than anybody ever. Wow. Um, you gassed me up, not just with uh your mind quits before your body does, literally in my ear when I'm rowing, which is like a weekly thing. Right. Um, but just in like uh like you inspired me to not just believe myself, but also to like kind of in a weird way set my expectations even higher. Right. Which is I didn't, you know, I kind of you don't know, you don't know. I didn't know that that existed, that that realm of expansion existed. And you know, again, that's partial, honestly, partially coming from at the time you sort of like knew I was good at what I did, but didn't know the level of that. Yeah, didn't know my status in the in the world and those types of things. And so you're just like you're viewing it with a white belt's mentality, and you're like, wow, this is you're really great. This you blah blah blah blah. And I was like, whoa, this the the expansion that you gave me in my own belief was unique, especially early on. So I appreciate that about you very much. It's a rare thing.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Yeah, that's cool to hear. I appreciate that. I remember, you know, some of our conversations early on after uh kids started soccer and you invited us to stay at your house, you know, in an out-of-town tournament. Um, and we had great conversation. Um, but you know, one of my philosophies and principles is, you know, uncomfortable honesty. And I think that a lot of times in this world and in society, we live in this like uh comfortable dishonesty where we will not say um, you know, something because we don't want to create any sort of uncomfortableness, but that's really disingenuous. That's not how you build real deep relationships. And um, you know, I know that when I was going into this, I was wanting to make sure that we were, you know, same core values, same core beliefs, that we were not unequally yoked with each other. And, you know, ultimately you think of the yoke um, you know, back as a farm tool between two oxen. And they had to be, you know, equally strength and direction, and you know, uh, and then they were efficient to do the job. And so, you know, that's actually a biblical um term. Um and, you know, but I think it applies not only to marriages, and that's how we often think about it in kind of the US, but also in business partnerships, because I think this is pretty much the closest you get to a uh marriage, you know, aside from your marriage with your wife. And so um, I just want you to know like the conversations, like it's been a it's been a two-way street. It's been mutually beneficial. Uh iron sharpens iron. I think that, you know, the way you uh just expressed, you know, what I've done for you, you've done equally to me. You've you know uh made me better in so many different ways, not just as the CEO of the practice, but also in life, as a husband, as a father, as a friend, um, you know, just just making it count. So I just really appreciate your mindset and how you approach life.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 19:30

Thank you. I that brought up a business question for me with you a little bit, which is um, this is me getting into your expertise. Uh when you're in um a business partnership or maybe not it's a full partnership, but a deep relationship where you're feeling that there's an unevenness in that yoke, if you will, like that things aren't quite the same. I mean, have you experienced that? How do you handle that? What does that look like from a true business standpoint?

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Yeah, can can that work? Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, in in essence, no, I don't think that you can be unequally yoked. Now, there could be, you know, the relationships aren't always between two people. Sometimes there's, you know, multiple people, and you know, but ultimately you gotta have the majority of the people aligned with the same direction and beliefs and vision. I don't think that the people have to be the same people, they don't have to have the same fundamental belief, but there are things about individuals for relationships to work where there has to be alignment. And I think

Choosing the People Around the Table

SPEAKER_02 20:30

uh if you look at relationships, it's all about communication, right? Like all of the successful relationships have good, effective communication, and ones that fail are, you know, poor communication. And so um that's where I'm just a huge believer in having those uncomfortable, honest conversations from a place of love, right? From a heart posture of love, because that's how you can move forward effectively. So um, you know, some of this I will say that I have been the product of great mentorship, my father-in-law being a great mentor of mine. Um, and I've had other great mentors that, you know, I really have prided myself on learning from them. And, you know, I'm gonna make my own mistakes. I do not have to repeat the mistakes that the generation before us have made. I can try to emulate their successes and try to not, you know, make the mistakes and step on the landmines that they have. But I got my own battle scars too, um, you know, and uh my own trials and tribulations in business with, you know, different relationships that were just uh we were unequally yoked. And, you know, ultimately I know what the outcome is when you have situations like that. So I think you know, you could start off unequally yoked, but eventually through conversation, hopefully you can get alignment. Otherwise, it's likely not going to work long term.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 21:41

Yeah. How does that work with being having been in a true startup where you were like starting with one, two, three, like literally multiplying in single digits for a while with people with like the core of that? Uh huh. How are you uh looking? Because you have different people with different skill sets that you need for every Everybody can't be the exact same, right? How are you ensuring that in those initial like phases of like you're gonna be number three or four at this like startup company that is your baby at that point? You're pouring, you've like given up everything to go all in on full send on this company. How are you uh those single, low single digit numbers, how are you finding the right people?

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of it is gonna come down to your whole process of like recruiting, interviewing, training, onboarding. Um, there's a a saying from a book that's uh have the right people on the bus, the wrong people off the bus, and the right people in the right seats. Um, and so you when you're moving fast and you're hiring for all these different diverse, you know, uh positions, you are interviewing, you know, for the technical skill set, you know, at least baseline they have to have the ability to fulfill that role. If I'm hiring for an accounting position that's expected to know the balance sheet and the income statement, I gotta hire somebody who has an accounting foundation. Um, but I am really looking for their work ethic, their discipline. Um, and one of the beautiful things about the startup world is that you typically don't have a lot of money to pay people fair market value. And so um you really kind of can weed out with your job offers in those situations because you we had more variable incentive, you know, in in startups, you're oftentimes incentivized through stock options, uh, which means that we all win together. We win together, we lose together. If the business goes public or sells, everybody wins. If it doesn't, none of us win. Um, and so you know, you see people who what I used to call betting with their feet, right? They would move here because we were hiring tech engineers, software, mechanical engineers, controls engineers from all over the country. They would move to Cordlean, Idaho to work at this tech startup. And so they'd bet with their feet. They're picking up, you know, home and moving it here for a less than fair market value job. And so that that was a very um, you know, telling piece about them. They were betting on themselves, betting on, you know, at that stage, you're I would say you're betting on the jockey more than the horse. And so the jockey would be, you know, the team that's around and the and the horse being the idea, right? I always say the most valuable asset of any business is the people. Like I don't care if it's a composite 3D printing company or a healthcare business or a heavy equipment, you know, rental business. It's the people around the table that are going to make that company successful. And so I've just really enjoyed, you know, I'm in the people business, honestly. Like I get to know people, get use discernment, you know, and and you know, don't get it always right. And, you know, unfortunately, when I have to separate with an employee, I do do that from a place of love. Like this isn't a good fit for you or us. And it would be unfair for us to keep you in this role at this business where you're not gonna thrive. But there is a that person has skills and talents that it's just not the right fit here. So interesting.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 24:53

Yeah. Heart posture love with that one again, right? Yeah, that's a hard one. Yeah. So as you're chatting about this business side of things, I can't help, and I thought about this several times when you were talking about how your role as a father, because that's one thing that we definitely are both we take very seriously. Not that others don't, but you know, it's just a different level of involvement, even like the first time we met, right? Right. Um and I guess uh you know, I would be curious,

Priorities and Alignment

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 25:20

you know, I know from my whole health background and my mindset and what that carries into how I parent my kids. How does what you just sort of talked about, you know, how has business prepared you for being a parent, basically?

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Yeah. That's a that's a good question. Um you know, I think that probably early on as I was younger, I was pursuing business from a place of like being a provider, you know. I I took my role on as a husband and, you know, wasn't a father yet. You know, we had kids four years after we got married. Um, but I took I took it on as like, I this is me to create resources for my family. Um, and business was just my background, my avenue to do that. Um, and you know, what I found was that I probably had my priorities out of alignment early on, um, you know, and I think through conversations with my wife, and you know, as we were growing our family and having kids, I would look at my these children and and recognize that like while I have this pursuit of business and success and providing finances for my home, I'm never getting these years back. And, you know, when I look at my kids, I'm like, that is my why, that is the legacy. Um, and so it's kind of like I don't know that my my way I approach work is different, other than I've shifted some priorities, um, you know, where like my why is my children, my family uh is, you know, ahead of my work, but my work is part of that. And I really approach the people that I am, you know, responsible and and humbled to lead as like that's my responsibility. Like when I hire somebody, I take that seriously because I'm impacting a person's life. And, you know, if that's a maybe a marriage, maybe not. They're gonna have kids. And so um, some people might look at that as like scary, like, oh my gosh, I have all these people, these mouths to feed, payroll to make. I actually approach that as opportunity. I look at that and say, look at all of the lives we can positively impact, not only by financially providing for them, you know, through and and they're in turn bringing value to the organization, but we can help them grow personally, professionally. Um, and you know, ultimately, if that means that they're going to grow up and leave 5C, that's okay. Like at the end of the day, we want them to be successful. That's part of the legacy we get to build as, you know, leaders of an organization. So, you know, I think I've really grown and matured in that over the last decade.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 27:42

Yeah, that's one of the five core values of our practice of our business, right? Is goals of growth. Right. We talked about this yesterday. We

Rapid Fire: Childhood and Upbringing

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 27:50

uh that one is very specific to the individuals that work from you and me and our goals of growth, uh, personally and professionally, and then each and every one of our team members. Absolutely, absolutely embodies that. Yeah, I love that. Um you ready for some audience questions? Sure. Let's go for it. Okay, here we go. I put this out to uh I put this out to the world on Instagram. So that Tyler and I were gonna meet, and I asked you guys what you wanted to hear. And here were some of the questions. There's some funny ones in here. Um would you have been friends if you met in high school or college?

SPEAKER_02 28:28

You want to go first or me to go first? You go first. Um I don't think we would. I I honestly think that um, I mean, you're an athlete through and through, um, and I was an athlete, but I was kind of the I mean depends on what season we're talking about, but I would say from like junior, senior year of high school through college, like I was like a work hard, play hard kind of a mentality, um, you know, where I didn't have a backstop behind me. I was paying my way through college, um, you know, and so it getting good grades and keeping the scholarships that I earned academically, uh keeping those were the top priority. Um, but you know, I'm down in Pullman, Washington, and so after school, it's like when I didn't have schoolwork, it's like now there's nothing else but rolling wheat fields and you know, parties and and having fun. Whereas you were, you know, from what I understand, just very nose to the grindstone. You had a plan, um, you know, focused on like just refining yourself academically with your collegiate sports, uh, just constantly being a student of the world. And so um, yeah, I don't know that we would have. Yeah. What do you think?

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 29:34

That's funny because we do have that direct comparison. We went to the same undergraduate university. We were just spaced out a little bit time-wise. Um and, you know, in high school, I think probably or maybe, you know, uh at my school, the basketball players and the wrestlers were like sort of had like this little riff with them if they're the same season there competing over like audiences and attention and cheerleaders and whatever, you know. Um, but I used to love our wrestlers and I would train with them because I watched them like basically going hard and like there was this thing they would do called black flag. And then, you know, I was like at the end you throw up in the garbage can, that's what you that's how black flag's over. So I was like, I want to try this, you know. Yeah. Um so I think actually in high school, there's yeah, we may have been, you know. But yeah, in college, you know, I was just very sort of like driven and disciplined in high school. I had goals and I was like definitely working towards them. Uh in college, that came to probably too much in the sense of just like between sports and academics and wanting to go to medical school. I, you know, everybody's like, oh, I love college. I like college is actually pretty challenging and I wouldn't probably go do it again. I mean, I would do it again, but it wasn't like a good time.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Right.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 30:48

I was like, I knew what everybody else was literally out doing, and I was like in the old dusty, stinky you know, science library that I'm like nobody's sat where I've sat for 40 years, you know, type of thing, like blowing the books off. And I was there and I spent a lot of time there because between sports took all my free time for the most part. I still had a good time. Yeah. Um, but it was like short, concentrated things instead of like, you know, yeah. It was like very few and far between. So yeah, maybe not in college because I was kind of tucked away a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Uh didn't have time for it.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 31:23

Yeah, I probably had you know more free time, interestingly, in medical school um when I didn't have sports the same way anymore. I was still training like 40 hours a week, but it was for a little bit more on my schedule than on somebody else's. So yeah, that's a good question. And and uh, you know, I think it's just like it's it's interesting to think of that now, like and how where we're at and how close we are, and how just life brings paths crossing and uh makes me look around at other people and be like, hmm, maybe that will be one of my best friends someday. Who knows? Right, you know, as life takes us there. So that's that was I thought that was a really good question.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

Yeah, I did too.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 31:55

Um most embarrassing gym story we have on each other. Hmm. I don't know. You got one? I don't really have any embarrassing ones. I definitely have some memorable workouts.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Yeah, we've definitely had some memorable workouts. I mean, I'd say the two things that stick out to me uh would be I mean, I know that you were kind of uh more opposed or adverse to wanting to load your spine back squatting. Right. And you know, I came from a CrossFit world where I've been back squatting and powerlifting for the last 14 years. Um, but we were back squatting heavy EDT, escalated density training.

Fitness, Discipline, and the Labor Day Workout

SPEAKER_02 32:30

And I remember I'm sitting there yelling at you to get the proper depth, and you would tell me about your back squat, how you have this butt wink because of this what is it, lack of mobility in your yeah, it's just a part of a it's a biomechanical thing that can be normal too.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 32:43

Sure. But like in the depth of the squat, if you watch somebody, their sacrum, their top of their butt can tuck under, which is called a butt wink. Yep. And it places a little extra strain on those muscles around the sacrum.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

Yep, yeah. Second one would be we did a birthday workout for you a couple years ago. And uh one of your best friends, Chris Haas, was in town, and your brother-in-law came over, and we had a we had a crew, uh, you know, bigger than our normal morning crew. Uh and we decided in Cameron fashion that we were going to do hill sprints. And we're not talking about just any hill. It was like, what do you think it is? A half mile, yeah, half mile hill, and it's some vertical. And you not only threw a 25-pound weight vest on, but we tied a balloon to you to act as the anchor. Right. And so you have this heart balloon as your uh I don't even know where the balloon came from. I don't either. I think it must have been like maybe one of my kiddo's balloons or something. Because I don't think anyone brought you this heart balloon, but we tied it to the back of your um to your uh weight vest, and you're doing I think we did six or eight hill sprints, yeah, and uh all of us were not wearing weight vests. I had my natural weight vest on. Uh but you still won, every single one, and you were ripping up there with this little heart balloon flapping in the wind.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 33:57

That hill's brutal. You can barely make it to the top, still running. Yeah, like there's sections that are so steep that would be you'd be stretching to call it running. You know, you're doing your best, but like both feet are not leaving the ground at the same time. Right. Yeah, it's it's nasty. Right. I think you gotta go down it too. So dirty that was a fun workout. That's definitely one of my most memorable ones, too. Yeah. Uh the first time I ever did uh Labor Day Murph. Oh, yes. That was also a brutal one because I kind of didn't know it was coming, which is probably a good thing. Right. Um, ignorance was bliss a little bit. So just for everybody's edification, Murph is a one mile run in a weight vest if you do it RX, which is CrossFits wave the way you're supposed to do it. RX as prescribed. One mile run in the weight, a 20-pound weight vest, and then a hundred pull-ups, two hundred push-ups, three hundred air squats with the weight vest still on, and then another mile run. Right, right. And uh I remember the first time I ever did, I'm like, oh, this will be great, get through it. And I pushed it hard, did great. Like had a really uh impressive time when I look back now, knowing what I know. Yeah, very impressive. And then I couldn't straighten my arms. It was miserable, right? Like I could not get my arms straight from the pull-up specifically. That's the one I didn't foresee how bad that one was gonna get me. But also, you know, as you know and and many of our audience knows, like I am metered with my workouts around when I'm doing them because I want to I do them to be my best, but specifically when I'm in the operating room, a peak performance, right? So that's never a workout I would do like the day before surgery ever. But the way that that week lined up, I had time before I had to go back to the operating room, thankfully. Yes. Um, because you know, then that that all kind of settled, and by the time I got to go back to operating, I was all healed from it. But that was nasty. Yep, yep. That was really challenging.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

What I love about that though is so that you know that this is a hero workout. They call them in CrossFit. It's after Michael Murphy, who um is from the Lone Survivor, you know, if you read the book or the movie, um, but these hero workouts give us an opportunity to go out there and you know, not let our bodies quit, even though our minds want to quit, you know, because there's lots of our um, you know, our soldiers that don't get to come home and get to fight for the freedoms that we have. And so I love the Labor Day Murph. It's actually Memorial Day Murph. Yeah, Memorial Day. Yeah, I said yes. Yeah, but we um we yeah, we that's kind of a tradition that we do every year. And now our kids are doing it with us every single Memorial Day weekend, you know. We have like seven couples and 25,000 kids running around doing the workout and then breakfast burritos and all the good things.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 36:35

Yeah, it's a great tradition. And the kids love it. They do their some of them do the full version, some of them do the metered version. Adam Smith, our jiu-jitsu professor, comes and does their he's the one who got rhabdo, actually.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Yes, professor. Same thing, pushing himself hard.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 36:50

He's how to push himself hard for sure.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Yeah, you know, one of the things that you just mentioned, though, that I think is worth noting is uh, you know, how you are really methodical about your

Reflecting on Seven Years of Friendship

SPEAKER_02 37:00

timing of your workouts and your recovery leading into surgery. And and you know, it kind of ties back to the beginning of our conversation where we were talking about like it's actually been a while that we've known each other before we got to this level of relationship. And so, you know, after you introduced yourself to me in that coffee shop seven years ago, um, you know, we knew each other by boat, we'd see each other surfing on the river. Uh, but I, you know, we were Instagram connected, and I'm not very active on Instagram, and you were very active on Instagram. And I would like watch your stories and watch your posts, and I'm like, this guy is a little bit nuts. Like, is this he is this really him? He can't actually be doing all these things. Uh, and then when we actually got into real relationship with each other, I'm like, no, this is Cameron. This is very real, genuine, authentic. Like, I know how you, you know, don't have an alcoholic beverage the night before, or really at all for that matter. But I know how you go to bed at a certain time and you wake up in the morning day of surgery, and you are sacrificing time with your wife and your children to be there, to show up to be the best version of yourself for your patients. And um, you know, I honestly think of like when I watch you, it's like you're training for the Super Bowl. It's like you're getting ready. Like the way you go into surgery is like the night before the Super Bowl, where you are gonna be the star quarterback and you, I mean, I've heard you even say it. You're like, my patients deserve the best version of myself, the best surgeon that they can possibly get. And so, you know, it comes with discipline and it comes with sacrifice, but that's who you are. And so I thought it was really cool how, like, when I was watching you from afar on social media, I'm like, is this real or is this like not? And then, you know, getting to do life with you for the last, you know, handful of years, I'm like, this is who Cameron is, you know, through and through. And so that's definitely rubbed off on me, made me better. And what did we talk about yesterday with our group? We talked about our culture of integrity being one of our five codes. And do you remember what we talked about with integrity and and what Dr. Meadows brought up? It was like doing the right thing, it was like doing the right thing, the right way, the right way, all the time, all the time. Yeah, exactly. You know, when nobody's looking. And so I think you just really embody that. I think that that's you know, that's who you are. So I I thought it was worth mentioning like that you you're very intentional about your workout, your recovery, your preparation, your mindset, you know. But then on the other side, you get to the other side of surgery, and it's like now this is something I so appreciate about you. You are always present. Like for whether you're a patient in front of you or whether you're a friend or one of your colleagues or coworkers, like that person, you make the person across from you feel like they're the only thing or only person that matters. And so um, you know, you do a really good job at that. And so when surgery's over, I love getting to see you like embrace your wife and embrace your children and sp and carve out time intentionally to, you know, make sure that you're investing heavily in those relationships.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 40:02

So yeah, yeah, that's interesting because uh, I mean, I do definitely feel well that I love that. That's a Nick Saban quote, you know, that Dr. Meadows played football at UCLA for Nick Sabin, and that was his like do the right thing the right way all the time, every time basically. Um because yeah, I thankfully I'm in a position where I can, you know, do that every single time for every patient. I that's I was kind of I tell my team this, we've talked about the this a bunch as we've been sort of like setting up our new operating rooms and things, is like I I always want this to be a place that I would be, heck yes, I want to have surgery there. Yep. All the intern, this is part of the integrity we talked about too, all the internal behind-the-scenes things, you know, the way that we have a microplastic-free OR, the um way that we handle like all the like what we're wearing in the OR and how everybody shows up. And you know, these are all things that patients never see, but um very much we all know like this is this is what I would want for myself. But the the you know, this idea of your surgeon showing up like they're you know getting ready to be the quarterback in the Super Bowl is like why would it not be that way every single time, right? Well, I'll tell you why, because it's really hard to do. Um, not even just hard from a discipline and energy standpoint, it is hard from those. And uh, and you mentioned the sacrifice, yeah, it's a sacrifice, like what I'm eating um and how I'm exercising, what I'm doing, and what my cognitive output is and my emotional output and how I'm in like with the tasks, like all of that is geared around, you know, I have surgery this week, so I'm my head's all there. And that means that I don't do some things that I would maybe otherwise want to do. And and um, yeah, I don't really ever drink, but I'm certainly never drinking leading into a game, which leading into a surgery. Game surgery, it's synonymous. Yeah, it is. Um just makes sense for me. Like you're not gonna bet on the quarterback who's you know having a even a beer the night before. Like, put it down, like get ready for your game, you know. Um and again, I'm just fortunate to be in a place where like I'm not doing three surgeries a day. So you're not you're never even my patients are never the second game of the day. Like first game. Um, and that you know, I uh it it does take a lot to do that. But it is the you know, the reasons that it's not happening is that you know it it's hard to do from like all of those difficulty things, but also like it takes practice and it takes a knowledge base and a curiosity to figure it out. Like I'm better at it today, getting into flow state is what I call it. I'm better at getting into flow state and being ready for that game today, you know, as a super professional, you know, like Tom Brady than a college kid who's takes his game just as seriously, um, but just doesn't know how to get into that state as well. So I'm really good at calling on that. And I think the the evolution that I've made the most, even since we've known each other, actually, is this is all behind the scenes stuff. These are all gonna kind of like I don't talk about this, but is um that process is much less fragile than it used to be. Meaning like I've always had it and I've always wanted and I've perfected it over time, but you know, there were I've gone through things or challenges in life or whatever where it's like it was hard to get there because I have all these other things going on. And so shoot, you don't want your doctor to be fully reliant on getting into flow state, but then they can't get into flow state because some alpha they had a baby who didn't sleep that night or something. And so it's become very much just like the idea of getting anti-fragile in that. It's like that process is pretty bulletproof for me. I could pull an all-nighter and I could still get into flow state at this point.

The Struggles Nobody Sees

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 43:30

That's incredible. Which is it that takes practice and time and figuring it out and like what does that mean? And you know, like, oh, you gotta take extra creatine that morning to like literally there's things like that that get thrown into it as well that kind of help offset whatever some of the struggles and challenges may be. Um, but yeah, it it is real. And I think that that is, you know, especially people follow my stories on Instagram. I actually put more of that like real very deep personal stuff in stories than I do just on my feed. So if somebody knows that, I know that they're like pretty tuned in and following along and And because it's, you know, that's there for a second and then it goes away. But yeah, that's literally is my life, right? You you capture half of those at this point. Like you're the one yelling at me. Your body quits before your mind does. Before your mind quits before your body does, yeah. Totally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

So it's very much real life. Yeah, it is very much real life. And it also, you know, it it's it's um uh contagious. It really is. Like that was one thing that I like was so shocked at when I came into 5C is that you've attracted that same type of uh

Aesthetics Gone Wrong: Younger Patients and Filler

SPEAKER_02 44:30

people and providers around. Like every single provider at our practice was a Division I athlete, you know, and we're not necessarily talking about the fact that they're just good athletically. I think that that's just how during that season of life, how those individuals were applying themselves. And now, you know, later in life they applied it to medicine.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 44:48

Yeah, that's actually very true. The Division I athlete thing. You know, you've got me uh at Washington State, you've got Dr. Meadows who played football at UCLA, you've got Aubrey, my wife, who played basketball at Arizona State, you've got Desary Um who swam at the University of Washington, Leah was in Washington State, yeah, right. Um Aubrey. Yeah, right. Um, the little battle there. Exactly. And Desiree and Aubrey, you know, sort of have this very unique part of our practice, you know, where um there are sort of non-surgical cosmetics, right? Which is really funny because Aubrey and I did an episode uh together. And um, you know, I'm not my stance on things like filler is very um real world. That's just what I'm gonna say. It is very much like this is what I see. Like people can argue and tell me this, and like I hate filler, and that's not true. I don't hate filler. Uh I just think that we don't a lot of people that use it don't understand it as well, the collective we. So everybody's like, oh, your wife's an injector, and this I'm like, yeah, she is. Uh but she's an injector who understands it deeply, knows what it does, doesn't deny these things that she's got sees it for me all the time. And so when, on the rare occasion, she does choose to use filler, it's she's viewing it as something that's like a semi-permanent implant. Yeah. Deserie's the same way. Deserie tends to do a little bit more of like uh a little bit more involved like fat transfers and lasers types of procedures, a little bit more like regenerative focused, non-surgical, cosmetic types of things, which for our local community is a great service because those types of high-level, I'm gonna say very like progressive mindset, like you know, these next level procedures from somebody who's an injector, it's not just like get your Botox and filler. It's like thinking a little bit more long term, thinking about a little bit more progressively, thinking what I would say honestly about what's best for you in the long term, the problem with filler, and you would know this from the business side of medicine. The problem with these filler and botox models is they're built up around recurring revenue. Right. That's how they do like you have to have and the and for so for an injector to say that that doesn't skew their you know their decision making is like uh just a blind spot. Like you're telling me that your revenue depends on seeing somebody every three months or six months or year, but that you can be objective with that, you know, like idea, especially if you you're denying that the product that you're using is lasting decades, which we all know that it is at this point. It's not even a question anymore. Um, and so it's interesting in our practice to have that like more progressive, you know, like our our registered trademark, welcome to the next level. We live that, right? And so do Deserie and Aubrey, and they're you know, sort of like I would say elevating that injector level type of of you know, P they're both uh physician assistant PAs, elevating that sort of mid-level type of injectable non-surgical cosmetics. It's quite interesting. And you know, I catch a lot of heat for this, as you know. Um, and this like, oh, you hate filler and you this and that, and all these things you're saying are not true, they're not backed by evidence. And I'm like, well, just because there's not evidence to support I don't know, what it what is it right now that filler changes over time doesn't mean that it's not happening, right? And I can I say what is it right now because years ago for me it was filler doesn't last as long as you say it does, and now we're all like, oh yeah, it does, okay, move on to the next one. Filler doesn't move or migrate, and now we're all like, oh yeah, it does, okay, move on to the next one. Filler doesn't cause inflammation, and we're like, oh yeah, now it does. It's just like I've been screaming this from the hilltops, and we're just waiting for things to catch up with the things that is just observationally unquestionably happening, right? Um, and so to have you know the again, that next level mindset of people that understand that, know that they're they're like literally inside of the operating room with me, you know. Um and so to have that surgical, you know, mindset around the injections that they're doing is just very different. And I I don't know that they would do that as well if they didn't have that the intangibles that, you know, the same thing that led them to be a division one athlete, you know, like that's hard to do. Like there's a lot of intangible things that go into that. Um, and they have it and they do it very well. Dr. Meadows is included in that to me.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I thought it was it really stood out to me yesterday during our uh all company meeting when we were talking about the five codes, and uh one of your longstanding team members who's been with you basically since the beginning of your medical career was talking about culture of integrity and how you embody this uh, you know, you telling patients, no, I'm not gonna do that procedure because I just I just vehemently disagree. You don't need that, like I don't want to do that. And so, you know, even it's a very selfless, non-self-serving approach to medicine where like, you know, your bottom line, your PL would definitely benefit from doing that procedure that that patient wants, but you actually tell them no. And, you know, I think that we have you that's instilled in the culture of our providers, like Desiree and Aubrey, you know, as injectors, like med spas are all over, you know, they're almost like a Starbucks, right? There's a there's a med spa on almost every street corner, and I'm being a little facetious with that.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 49:47

No, I just we're gonna get so much heat from this from the med spas.

SPEAKER_02 49:50

Yeah, um there's good ones and there's not as good as there's yeah, there's great med spas and then there's med spas that you know don't aren't necessarily as uh as ethical. And so um, but you know, I think that you have Desiree and Aubrey approaching, you know, non-surgical cosmetics and injections from a place of you know, having been in surgery and having seen the results, the tangible results of what happens with fillers. Um and so, you know, they they when they use them, it's very minimal. They use neuromodulators.

Fat Transfer and the Natural Approach

SPEAKER_02 50:21

And what's amazing that I love, and being a non-healthcare person, this is kind of resonates with me, where they're actually harvesting fat from the patient, you know, from the abdominal area, and then using it to get volume in the face. Um, but that fat actually gets its own blood supply, it's not a foreign body into the face. And so, you know, it's not that getting getting volume is bad from an aesthetics perspective. It's like, but what are we using to get volume? And so, you know, that's definitely born out of like your culture of integrity, your mindset, and then their experience that they get being in the operating room with you, they're like, I'm not gonna do this for my patients. So I know many times they will tell patients, no, I'm not gonna give you any more injections of X, Y, or Z.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 51:01

It's very rare for an injector to get as much experience in the operating room as they have. Like a lot of them may have seen something one time. Oh, yeah, I used to be an OR nurse or something. It's like, that's very different than being like scrubbed in as a PA in a surgery, and you're like, Yep, here's filler, here's the encapsulation, here's what it looks like in the fat, here's how it's affected the surrounding tissue. You can't not see that, right? And that's not the experience that most injectors are getting, which is why they carry a different mindset. I also am laughing to myself a little bit that you said it'd be good for your PL. Very business-y of you. And and I brought that up because you uh I knew, you know, when I talk about the revenue models of injectables relying on repeat treatments, you know, I would be, I would be denying a blind spot of mine too, to be like, I make my money doing surgery, unquestionably. Yeah, you know. Uh so I that's a full acknowledgement. I I truly believe most of the time that the procedures that I'm doing are I'm not gonna say superior to injectables. I want to switch this over to it's the right treatment for that person for what they're seeking. That's what yeah. And you just sort of hit on that a little bit with um what my the first employee I ever hired, who's literally been with me my whole career, um, you know, she sees it all the time. The like saying no, like this isn't right for you. There's other things that would be better. Um, which is funny because in the clickbaity world of social media, there's all of this like, oh, pe people are getting facelifts at younger ages, and everybody freaks out. Like the real story of that is through no world of my own, like, yes, the average age of people seeking me has is creeping down. Yeah. And I do have people in their 30s and early 40s reaching out. The real truth of it is, is like what Shelby said, yeah. Um, is that I'm telling almost all of those people no, unless there's that rare situation where it's actually right for them. Right. In which case, then I'm saying, yeah, this is the right thing for you, which is very different than the your typical med spa mentality. Yes, you're gonna find a med spa that like maybe tells somebody no, but uh most of the time, like you could go in right now and walk out with filler in you. That will happen, you know. Um and and again, and you they'll walk out the problem, and that's not even bad, but you walk out with filler in you injected by somebody who thinks that it's gonna last 12 to 24 months, yeah, or that it's not gonna move, or that it's not gonna cause inflammation, or that like we just we just have

Why People in Their Thirties Reach Out

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 53:20

to do better for our patients than that. And I do try to do better, and that's uh again, one of my core values is definitely integrity. It's one of our five codes of our practice. Um, and you know, that's sort of what Shelby was calling out a little bit in there, is that it's it's very different than people think, you know, and like this is it really gets out of the social media world of like battles over filler and throwing this out and like personally attacking. I I take so many personal attacks via this, right? Um which just tells me that people they just don't know what to do. Yeah, like they don't have a solution, they don't have an actual thought or argument. This is just like a personal attack. That's all they got, right? Um and uh, you know, it's it's it's funny and it's sad, but it's not good for our patients in that sense. And you know, on the flip side, the real world is yeah, sometimes people in their 30s reach out to me for facelifts, and I tell them no. Right. It's the the the point of it is yes, for some reason things are trending down, and that's a whole nother podcast on why that's happening, but it's like it's just doing the right thing for the right people, and that's certainly what our whole practice, Desiree and Aubrey embody a higher level of that, um, as does Dr. Meadows and myself and Dr. Kel. Yeah. How we roll and how we function.

SPEAKER_02 54:27

Yeah, yeah. And I think I just want to add, like, I I have friends that are injectors at med spas and I respect them. And this is not a knock against med spas, it's not a knock against injectors. Everybody in our inner circle is that absolutely, it's more of a uh just high level of kudos to Deserie and Aubrey because they are very progressive in the way they approach non-surgical cosmetics. Right. Um, you know, and like we talked about a couple times here, it's just ingrained in our culture. And so, you know, we ultimately want to do what's best for the patient, uh, regardless of the in cap uh the impact to our PL, aka our profit and loss statement, aka income statement.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 55:06

Yeah, or uh your bottom line motivated by money. Yes, that's your basic way of saying that. There we go. Yeah, lots of questions about the pain cave and the boating across and a workout in there. Um well that we kind of touched on that, I guess. So just to answer that is Tyler and I live across the the water from one another. Like literally, we can look, I can tell when the TV's on in your house. We kind of joke about that, right? Um we literally like look in each other's houses across the water. It's a little ways away, but it's a 22-minute physical car ride, yep, or a 30-second boat ride. Yeah, or paddle board. Or pedal board or paddleboard or yeah, pick your pick your vessel. So um we the ironically, the boat that I take over most is this little dinghy, right? Just because it's uncovered and out there. And so if you guys ever see me post about like the morning trip to the pain cave, I'm just driving from my house to Tyler's house in this little like outboard motor dinghy that my son drives mostly. Yep. Um, and he shuttles that thing around back and forth between our homes to like soccer practices and pick up this and go to that. And we went to a World Cup game recently, and he's like, we're in a hurry. We decided the day of we were gonna go to this game, right? Yep. So he's driving across to pick you guys up and running you over. And um, so it's this funny, the funny setup of like across the river neighbors, except we're 22 minutes apart to drive, right?

SPEAKER_02 56:33

Which you said earlier, it wasn't by design. I would say more lucky than smart, you know. We you had that property

Boats, Family, and Doing Life Together

SPEAKER_02 56:40

that you were building on, and we, you know, we're living there, and um, we were we got to this level before you actually got your house done and moved in. Exactly. We didn't even live there yet, yeah. Yeah, but it's been awesome. And your your son's boat is you know, it's kind of an incredible story, actually, because you know, he was getting older and wanting to give him some responsibility or you know, and give him some freedom, but he had to earn that. And so, you know, you having him read the Idaho boater safety and then giving him a test and making him pass it, and you know, he he treats that thing. It's kind of funny when you have to like work and earn something. Um, you know, we all have time, talent, and treasure. And if you look at where we put, you know, those three things, that's typically what we prioritize. And and he pri he's very proud of you know reaching that goal that he set, passing that test, having this boat, giving him that freedom. And you know, with that, he he embodies that it takes responsibility. So he's always telling our kids put their life jacket on. And you know, he might forget to check the gas gauge every once in a while. Yeah, but those are fun life lessons to learn, right?

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 57:43

So he knows more about the voter rules in Idaho than 99% of voters in Idaho. 100%. Which we got to see firsthand, right? This year when he got pulled over by one of the sheriffs on the water right in front of us. We're watching from the shore. Yeah, when you turned on bad boys, which is very much a title of the thing to do. When he sent the police around, bad boys is blittering. Yes, and they love it. They're dancing on their boat. Yeah. So him and two teammates from the soccer team are on this boat, out putting around, life jackets on, which is legal. He's driving an engine that's under 10 horsepower, which is legal, all these things. He gets pulled over by the sheriff, and we're all like, oh my god, what's he gonna do? You know, like what kind of like like happy for the lesson that's about to happen. Yeah. But then, you know, a normal pullover when we just get safety checked is you know, five or ten minutes.

SPEAKER_02 58:31

It's a colonoscopy. Yeah. Show the fire extinguishers and all the throwables.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 58:36

And they get pulled over and what 30 seconds maybe later, 40 seconds later, the sheriff just takes off. And we're like, we didn't even check anything. Right. And it was because the sheriff pulled them over and was saying, you know, you're not allowed to be driving this boat. And my son knew the age, the horsepower, the life jackets, the length, and the the sheriff literally got off their phone to Google what he was saying to check the laws, and they're like, You're right, let them go. Yep. That was it.

SPEAKER_02 59:04

No, and then just the other day I saw his boat and it has the 2025 sticker on it. It doesn't have the current tabs on it.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 59:10

I just registered after it hasn't sent it to us, yeah. But yeah. And yeah, they didn't even say anything about it.

SPEAKER_02 59:15

No, they didn't say anything about it. Anyway, yeah, but the pain cave is welcome to anyone who wants to come in and grind with us. Yeah, there you go.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 59:22

Yeah, a lot of people reach out about wanting to come into the pain cave. Yeah, it's called that with good reason. You will you will taste your lactic acid in there for sure. Absolutely. Um, let's see. Favorite thing you've learned from me, or the thing that surprised you the most, and your least favorite thing, something that you had to change that you didn't want to, but you knew that it made you better.

SPEAKER_02 59:45

Well, that one's easy. Yeah. What's that? Yeah. Throwing a Dexcom on, looking at my insulin spikes, and then starting to cut out the carbs and the sugar. Yeah.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 59:56

Well, you're um, I mean, you were very fit. Like when I said you were a beast, you still are, you always have been, you were, but your like body composition has morphed pretty significantly since we've known each other without really changing your output, I wouldn't say could have been any higher. It's like you started working out harder, you couldn't have worked out harder than you did before. I would actually say you maybe have been a little bit more intelligent with your training mix and your training goals. Yep. Um, and jujitsu, I think, has been part of that too, but your body composition's changed pretty dramatically. So proofs in the pudding.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:29

Yeah, you and Dr. Meadows were, you know, instrumental in that, you know. So I would say these it's kind of the same answer. I learned these things from you guys. And then I'm also like, I love myself a good cinnamon roll and a cup of coffee. You know, nothing like a nice warm homemade cinnamon roll. But and I'm very much like all my life, I've been this teeter-totter where I'm like, it's I'm like a light switch. I can be all on and like cut all that stuff out, or you know, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna, everything's okay in moderation, but that moderation goes from 80-20 to 70-30 to 50-50. So, you know, I think that I'm still earlier in my journey of figuring that out. But you're absolutely right. When I when I wear the uh, you know, the DEXCOM and I use the levels app and I'm tracking, you know, my insulin spikes and you know, my sleep and my recovery, my HRV, you know, those things just it just makes me that much better, you know? And in our 40s, like we're I mean, it's funny when we all hang out as friends, like our friend group. You got like seven or eight guys that are just like ripped in specimens and like, you know, they're just and not that their physical attributes are the only thing, there's also they're really great husbands and fathers and successful at their jobs, and it's back to the sampling air, you know.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:01:42

That's it's more atypical to be both of those, probably. Yeah. To have the, you know, the whatever you'd call those other items of success that you mentioned, but then also just like be prioritizing their physical health to the same degree. Yeah, that was not compromised in the quest for the family and the business and things like that. Yep. Yeah, it is a sampling art, it's very atypical. But it's you know, it's like attracting like and definitely the idea of you know surrounding yourself with the you know, the people that you want to be like, or um not, you know, of course, it's like even uh having conversations and interacting with people who have different uh values, beliefs, roles, knowledge, passions, curiosities than you is it's good for us. It's it's neuroplastic, it helps us expand and grow. Right. Um but then where you put your time and who you're pouring into and who's pouring into you, like will affect you and uh like you know, the idea that you're an average of the people you spend the most time with. Absolutely. Uh that's been said a lot of different ways. But you know, we have a great group that we do. We do.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:41

We have a painter, we have a pastor, a couple doctors, a PA, a chef, um, you know, a a business guy. So it's it's a fun group. And I love in that. Yeah.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:02:53

I think about that at jujitsu too, actually, where absolutely you know, it's a little bit more of a concentrated environment, but the group of guys that we do jujitsu with, we call ourselves the 6 a.m. savages, which is cute, but also a bit tongue-in-cheek because it's like a lot of like dads and professionals and and um tends to probably a frame shift older than the average jujitsu group. We have guys in their 20s and we have guys in their 50s and um and then a lot of the in between, a lot of thirties and a few forties, and and um it's it's an atypical group for what we have. It's very special um the way that we push each other and like you know, choke each other, but also like are respectful of roles and like everybody knows what I do, and everybody knows you know, kind of what's in bounds and out of bounds, and right takes a lot of humility on everybody's end, myself especially. If I go in thinking I'm gonna I'm gonna murder everybody, well, I'm gonna get the same energy back. Totally. Totally. Um, this was my big big thing with you at the beginning, is like you are a full send 110% all the time, which you're gonna get that back when you put it out in jiu-jitsu. It's a life's a mirror, right? So it's like uh that's a cruel reflection sometimes when you're going. It's like this guy's a black belt, you know, like his 110% is a different speed, yeah, right? But I love it, you know. I know you do. I know you do. And you, I give you full credit, now have at least you're like a bread machine. You've got at least three speeds now. I don't know. I love it. What do you think now, guys? Tell me about three speeds. I would say that's probably accurate. Slow, medium, and full set.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:23

Yes, yeah. Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:04:26

That's right. I know that about you very much.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:28

I mean, what I loved about jujitsu,

The Invitation That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_02 1:04:30

I remember it was September when you invited me. We had been, you know, doing soccer season for two to three months, and we had a brand newborn. Um, and I remember you inviting me to go. I'm like, heck yeah. Like I used to be a wrestler, haven't done it in 15, 20 years, but let's do it. And what I fell in love with is like as a dad, a husband, and as you know, an executive of business where you have a lot of people you're responsible for, you're consuming all these inputs at once, right? All these things are coming in and you're having to react and respond and you know, give energy to all those things. And jujitsu, 6 a.m. savages, people think like choke each other out at 6 a.m. Like that doesn't sound relaxing at all. Like I want to sit and have a cup of coffee here and do some yoga, which you know is also nice. But what I love about jujitsu is that it actually is relaxing to me because I have that it's so intense that I can only focus on that person in front of me and the pressure and the energy and and what they're doing to me. I don't have the bandwidth and the cognitive space to be thinking about all the other things going on in life. So it's like this one hour where it's just like me and that other person, and and they're definitely my friend. We're gonna high five each other. We're not trying to hurt each other. But, you know, there's it's in a competitive outlet, but also this like mind relaxing, kind of like almost, you know, yeah, I don't want to say meditation, but it's like very, yeah, it's just very relaxing for me. It's therapeutic, if you will.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:05:55

Oh, interesting. Yeah, I definitely I feel it's cathartic for me because it is the only. You can't if you've your mind slips for a second, you will find yourself in a bad place, you know. So but I actually don't think of it for me as being overly relaxing in the same way. Um, I am seeking the challenge, not that you aren't seeking the but I'm seeking the challenge to like be in uncomfortable positions and then learn how to stay composed, be precise, make the right decisions because there's right and wrong decisions, and there's very fleeting windows. Absolutely. So very much like surgery. Absolutely. But in jujitsu, when you're when we're rolling against a white belt, the window is open for this long, and you're like, oh, I'm gonna just saunter on through that window. Totally. And when you're rolling with the black belt, the window opens for that long and you missed it. Right. But you even just recognizing that you missed it is uh the first step, right? Right? Right. And so that's that's very analogous to what happens in the operating room. And um, I really like that it's a an outlet for me to get better at my ultimate love, passion, and goal, um, the thing that fuels me the most, that I that is sort of my unique part, without having to spend all the time in there. Like in a like I I can get better at that thing without having to get those reps there. It's like reps in other things. Or when I visualize, like you know, for my procedure this week, I was just telling you I spent my morning visualizing for that. Like that's free reps if I look at it that way. And so jujitsu isn't as much relaxing for me as it is just like purposefully putting

Curiosity, Growth, and the White Belt Mindset

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:07:20

myself in an uncomfortable space.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:21

Yes, yeah.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:07:22

And I like teaching in that too. I've evolved into that. So I will say that's turned into maybe more of a relaxing role as I've become a higher belt of just um, you know, rolling with people who maybe aren't like a threat as much to me to like from a competitive choke me out standpoint, right? Um, but are much like I I'm fueled by their curiosity and their white belt mentality, and I absorb that. And that is also an asset to me in surgery, that level of curiosity and learning and intrinsic learning. And mind, you know, when I first started doing jujitsu, Aubrey, my wife, jokes that like she could I'd be talking to her, she could tell that I was visualizing like I'm gonna get like a collar tie or whatever on there or something like a rear naked choke. She's like, You're thinking about choking me right now, aren't you? And I'm like, not like that, you know. But yes, um, and you did that definitely for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:07

I think I still do. Sometimes you'll be stretching on the sidelines of soccer, and I'm like, I just want to do a flying triangle on you right now.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:08:14

You do say that all the time. Yeah, and so that's just but that's part of that curiosity about like recognizing and being like, what could I what would I do here? What could I do here? And so it's good for me in surgery to have that outlet here because when you're at the highest level of something, honestly, when you're a master of one thing, right? It's hard to find um things that push you to be better in that space that aren't that thing. Right. So jujitsu is definitely that for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:37

Right. Well, what I love about it is like you never, your mindset from my conversation to you, you've never felt like you've mastered something. Like you're at the you're at peak performance and you're like, I can get 1% better every single day. Um, you know, and we see that in your results, you know, in the operating room. And I love this uh analogy and how you can simulate it with jujitsu. And I have no doubt you're like on black belt path and you're gonna be like a multiple degree black belt because you know you won't be satisfied with just getting your black belt. Like you're gonna do this for till you're 70, 80 years old, like Marcello.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:09:12

As long as it fuels me for sure. I was actually thinking about that today. Um, randomly, this idea, I was listening to a podcast, um, and it was sort of it had to do with bucket list items and like defining bucket list items, and I was just like, oh, I kind of have that, and you know, it's evolved as I've had kids actually. Um but definitely that is a bucket list item of mine is like to earn, specifically earn, not achieve, but earn that black belt, yeah, for sure. Yeah, which again is just like the start of the whole process. Like I said, like there's so everybody thinks you're a black belt and it's whatever, but it goes so far beyond that. And I will say that it's interesting too that like earning your black belt in jujitsu is a completely different animal than earning your black belt in a lot of other martial arts. That's true. Um, like our professor uh of jujitsu, who's a multiple degree black belt and a competitive athlete in MMA and jujitsu, to tells a story that he grew up in karate and got his black belt in karate and and you know got it pretty young and tells this funny story of like he was telling somebody about his black belt when he was like a young adult or adult, and he was in jiu-jitsu at that point, and this there was like a lady and she's like, My grandson is a black belt in karate as well. And the kid's like 12 and is a black belt, right? And I actually had a friend in town this weekend whose son is in Taekwondo, and he's what seven, eight, and is on almost a black belt in Taekwondo. And I was just like, Oh, this is funny. Um, because I mean for us, like no kid would ever be a black. I mean, you can't even like start getting colored belts in jujitsu till you're 16. Right. Right. And then at sixteen, you still have even if you're on the fastest track ever, um, you know, most people are in their mid-20s before they would if you were like super regular. Right. Um it's like it's a 10-year journey for most people. At least some people do it faster, but like what faster is usually like half that time. Yep. So yeah, maybe you're in your early 20s and you've like you know, you're like your sport is jujitsu, because it is a sport, right? There's a like absolutely and so you can maybe get your black belt at that young age, but in general, it's like it's kind of like uh it's it's truly earned with time. It's not like you know, you went, you got it, not like you get it because you go to class. That's not how it works. Right. Yeah. So that's interesting. Yeah, well, jujitsu um tie in, but that's how I approach it. Yeah. Why it isn't that relaxing to me. Yeah, it makes sense. My nervous system is stimulated when I'm in there. It's not there's no, I don't leave there with like, I feel refreshed. Yeah. I'll leave there sweaty, usually bruised, bleeding. Hopefully the bruises aren't on my face. They often are.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:47

If you're old in me or Caleb. I know, right?

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:11:49

And it's so funny because there's plenty of podcasts and Instagram videos where people are like, what happened to your face? You you. Now you know. Actually, welcome Tyler Alvaron. If you ever ask what happened to your face, this is probably one of the reasons, highly likely one of the reasons why. Probably. And uh Jake, who's sitting over here, you can cut in all the videos of my bruised faces. Oh, that'd be a great point for that. So good. Um, okay, all right. Winding it up here. I have my five codes,

Tyler's 5 Codes

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:12:20

which are my core values to myself. Our practice has its five codes, which is sort of like our mission statement. We've actually referenced several of them today. Yeah. You know, we've got our heart of service, our culture of integrity, our goals of growth, our spirit of innovation, and our mindset of the next level. Um, and that is like our five C, our five codes right there. But I have my own personal ones that are more like my personal values. What are your five codes, Tyler Alvarado?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:48

Yeah, it's a great question. Um, so I actually did this exercise, you know, not that long ago as I was like really wanting to, you know, seek to understand what were your core values, what were my core values, you know, catalyzing that honest, uncomfortable conversation of like where do our core values align? Um, so from memory, um, I remember loyalty being a big one. Um, you know, and I just I feel like, you know, if we're one of the things we've talked about is like, let's not work with somebody, you know, for a day that we wouldn't work with for a lifetime, right? Like I would go to war with this team, I would go to war with you, you know. I think in business and life, I I approach them the same way. Um, you know, like I want to know that we're running in a certain direction if we're going to war and like I'm not gonna get shot in the back. My my you know, my SEAL team is shooting that direction, we're shooting this direction, kind of a thing. Um, so loyalty is a really big thing. Um, you know, and I think loyalty and trust go hand in hand. Sure. Um, a second one would probably be work ethic and discipline. Um, you know, I think that when I think in my life about anything that I'm proud of or the things that I'm most proud of that I've accomplished, none of them were easy. They all took an incredible amount of work, discipline. You know, I always like to say that luck is this intersection of uh opportunity meeting preparation. Sure, you know, and that preparation is uh, you know, where that work ethic and discipline comes in. So um I think that's probably one of the things that we noticed. I mean, we talked about it, we didn't call it out in that way, but you know, we worked out on the sideline of a soccer practice. We before we were even, we were still building relationships, you were coming over to the pain cave. Then you're like, hey, you want to try jiu-jitsu? I'm like, absolutely, full send.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:33

Like I just think that there's this element of like just continuing to put ourselves, having the courage to put ourselves in uncomfortable positions, uncomfortable situations to grow uh as individuals and to make each other better. Um, and so work ethic and discipline are definitely a high, a high one up there. Um third one I would say is uh just family and friends and and you know, community. I think that that's a really big uh area that you know work is meaningless without community, without people to do life with. And so I just feel so incredibly blessed. I think of you more as in that environment than you know in our work environment. Um, because we just get to do life with each other and our our wives get to, you know, help shuffle around kiddos. They're working out well, they just did today. Right, right. And multiple of the wives of our coworkers are they're all friends and they're working out together. And so Dr.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:15:30

Meadow's wife is with them too. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:32

I think I I I ran your three kids and my son to a soccer camp today this morning. So um, and then I think via the boat we talked about. Via the boat, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so you know, that's a really big one. Um, what is that three so far? Yeah. Um, my fourth one would be my faith. Um, you know, God is uh, you know, Lord and Savior of my life, and He's what brings me everlasting joy. And so I'm just that's a really big core value of mine. Um, and you know, through through grace, I have been saved. And, you know, I just think that um, you know, it's nothing that I can do to earn it. Um, it's it's through what Jesus Christ did for me. So I that's a huge core value of mine. And um I love being able to kind of be his light in this world. Um, I always think of like business as like that's my platform, that's my ministry. Platform that's not, you know, it's not vocational ministry, but it's an opportunity where I can show his light in more of a secular world. And I love that.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:16:34

I'd say you do that in a very unique way that is challenging to walk the line of, and I think everybody appreciates that, you know, from your um friends to your pastor family to your church and how you sort of like use those that

Earning It and Pushing Each Other

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:16:50

platform and those resources, and I mean are very generous with them.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:53

Yeah, well thank you. And my fifth one um is competitive. I'm a very competitive person. Um, but it's I think it's different than like competing against you. I think it's competing against myself. Uh-huh. Sometimes against me. Sometimes against you. This is true. This is true. Uh on the mats, maybe, in the pain cave. Yeah.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:17:15

This is where we have very different strengths too. Yep. Yeah, which is actually a question that some people asked us that anyway we can get into in a sec.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:21

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know I had one of the scariest uh snow skiing accidents this winter, uh, trying to keep up with you because I switched from snowboarding to skiing, right? And I still am full sending on the skis down the double black diamonds as if I was on a snowboard, been doing it for 25 years. Yeah. Um, which, you know, I'm I'm I'm getting there, but I had a pretty bad rack. But anyways, that's not here or there. Um, one thing about me is from that competitive aspect is that nobody will ever be harder on me than I can be on myself. Um I just be careful about exactly. I think that that's where, you know, people like you, people like my wife, people like our, you know, community group, it that's where I kind of have some of those guardrails to like not, you know, not you know, never be enough, never be content, you know. But I think it it's I I now channel it towards like how can I be like your mindset, one percent better every single day. Like, how do I get better in these relationships, in, you know, and always trying to make sure that my priorities are aligned, but I'm I'm very competitive person.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:18:28

Yeah, for sure. And we a lot of our values, it's interesting because we have like different strengths literally, and then in this metaphorical sense too, there's a lot of alignment. You know, mine are like excellence, integrity, presence, leadership, and growth. Those are like my five codes, my five core values, if you will. So, but my excellence is competitiveness. I'm highly competitive. That's like my lead, if you were to do my uh what are they called? Your strength finders. Yeah. Like competitiveness is like high on my list, but that's in my quest for excellence, usually. It's just a way that I can have a metric of that. And surgery doesn't I can't have that in the same way. But like my discipline and my those types of same core values feed my growth value, personal growth, but they also feed my excellence value. Like that's the that's one of my I'd say I'm obsessed with my results in surgery, and that's yeah, I'm not an exaggeration, but it's driven by that core value of excellence and growth and you know, even like presence with my patients, and you know, there's things I can be better about, but like or my family, you know, you mentioned you like hit so when you just gave me that compliment earlier, uh unbeknownst to you, it's one of my core values of like, you know, that's something I want to be better at because

One Plus One Equals Three

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:19:40

it's so important to me. But it's good to hear that like you do a really good job of it. So you do. Yeah. But then, you know, when it comes to jujitsu or the pain cave or even in business, we have a lot of overlapping strengths that we can go forward with, but then we also I think complement pretty well with, you know, like quite literally, obviously, like business versus medicine, uh, but also just in you know how we like visualize and approach things. I feel I feel very non like if we are going in to solve a problem, I don't feel any pressure to like uh to conform to some to your idea or somebody else that we kind of come out with our own things, and there's this like mutual respect around, okay, here's our different ways. How do we sort of make this work? Which is good. I think it's an asset. It gives us a broader field to kind of narrow down with.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:25

Yep. I actually had this conversation with our kids on the way to on the way to soccer this morning. I said, you know, we're I told them we were gonna do this podcast today, and I said, we are they're what are you guys gonna talk about? And I'm like, I don't know. We'll see where the conversation goes. But one thing that I imagine will come out is that we're very much a one plus one equals three.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:44

And they're and and your daughter, your youngest daughter's like, wait, one plus one equals three? And I was like, Yeah. So what I'm getting at is that like individually we're a one, but you bring us together and we have different skill sets and the synergies between those, and it equals three, right? One plus one equals three. It's a very businessy thing to say synergies and one plus abstract for a nine-year-old. Absolutely. And the it but it catalyzed all this conversation with the kids, which I really enjoy, you know, pouring into these kids. And I think that our kids are going to get a spot where like mine don't want to listen to me as much and yours don't want to listen to you as much. So now we can just parent them through each other.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:21:22

They can they can just give the ah the global collective. I keep hearing the same things. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:29

But yeah.

Closing Thoughts

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:21:30

Well, Tyler, thank you for coming. Thank you for sharing, being vulnerable, spending your time. Um, and I'm super grateful for you on so many levels.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:39

Likewise, it was my pleasure. I'm I'm just blessed to be able to, you know, have this level of relationship with you, and I've enjoyed the conversation and look forward to our next one. Feel the same way. All right, brother.

Dr. Cameron Chesnut 1:21:49

Let's go. Love you. If you have any questions or topics you would like me to explore further, please leave them in the comments. I read them all and they often help shape the future conversations here. I also want to be clear that the views shared on this podcast are my own and are not associated with or representative of my clinical teaching affiliation with the University of Washington School of Medicine, nor should this be taken as individual medical advice. Thank you for spending your time with me. I appreciate you being here, and I will see you on the next episode.